I don't claim to be an expert on philosophy but here is where I get stuck on the abortion issue -

At what point do we consider the potential for life to be life?

I think that a blastocyst with no nervous system cannot be considered human... yet. But it has the potential to become human. Is removing that potential morally ok? If I say no then how far back should I take this? Is the use of contraception morally wrong because it denies a child the chance at life? Is masturbation morally wrong for the same reasons?

I have never been able to agree on a solid stance on the abortion issue. It's why I'm pro-choice. I think it's up to the woman to make up her mind - though I don't think it should be done frivolously - if she thinks she can support a child or if the child will have a decent quality of life and if she can reconcile her own morality with it. I don't think we can make a judgement yet on whether it is morally unjust to destroy that potential for life.

What is your stance on abortion and why have you reached the conclusion that that stance is right?

Conception.

Case closed, next.

Well that's not what catholics would say and it's not what an abortion clinic would say.

I'm just looking for some reasoning (not theological debate) and logical answers from people who have reached a conclusion through something other than knee-jerk reactions or 'because my priest says so' that can help me think of this issue in a different way and possibly reach a moral judgement of my own.

i think of humans as every member of the species homo sapiens.

I think you can't really consider an ethical problem in a vacuum. It's basically a matter of, ok, what is the basis for your ethics? What ethical framework do you think is best? And then it's a matter of deciding in that ethical framework, should abortion be allowed? It's a matter of, what is your ethical system? And then the conclusion about this and every other ethical problem follows logically, although in some cases the conclusion may be difficult to ascertain.

So, when we're discussing the morality of abortion, we're not really discussing abortion, we're discussing fundamental ethics (unless we all agree on an ethical framework and then discuss in particular what that framework logically leads to).

All the discussion is always "No, abortion is wrong" "Why?" "Cause God said so."

or, "Yes, abortion is permissible" "Why?" "Cause woman has a right to her body"

In each case they aren't really saying anything about abortion fundamentally, but they are just explaining that their beliefs imply a particular conclusion. Whether or not they're right rests exclusively on whether their foundations for ethics are right.





I'm rambling. My point is, if there is a correct answer to this problem (or any ethical problem), the only way to arrive at that answer is by knowing the correct overarching ethical worldview. Like, if Christianity is correct and the Roman Catholic Church is the correct interpretation of it, then abortion is wrong, regardless of any arguments to the contrary. If negative utilitarianism is correct, then there are many situations in which NOT having an abortion would be wrong (at the very extreme end they would argue that abortion is always right because nonexistence is preferable).

So if you wish to discuss abortion within a particular ethics, then I'd be happy to give my thoughts. If you want my personal opinion, I'm something of a hedonistic utilitarianist, and I think there are no strict rules, it needs to be judged on a case-by-case basis. I think for example, if a child is going to be born with something like Harlequin-type ichthyosis, it would be morally abhorrent not to abort it. On the other hand, I have a hard time seeing a fundamental moral difference between late-term abortion of a healthy baby and murder of a sleeping adult.

Brain function is a possible development stage to consider.

The best form of child control and std prevention is the use of condoms.

For some reason people are promoting careless sex.

I think the best point to cut abortion off is when consciousness developes, whenever that may be (I think 23 weeks, like Roe V Wade said?). If you have never been conscious a "you" can't really exist. If a consciousness has not come to form there is no moral agent to wrong and so nothing "wrong" can happen to it.



No, it's abstinence. For some reason you're promoting sin and carelessness that will result in millions of unwanted infections and births!

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Oct 2 2014 07:47pm

Out of any view I've ever held on moral issues, God, religious issues, political issues, abortion is the one that I've never seriously reconsidered my position on. Even when I didn't necessarily believe in God, I've always felt a strong instinctual-like feeling towards abortion being immoral.

Please everyone, next time you vote, consider IceMage's feelings.