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Feb 10 2020 07:50pm
Quote (ThatAlex @ Feb 10 2020 08:34pm)
John Kasich, Bill Weld, Jeff Flake, and Evan McMullin have all tried to hold that title, but Romney has the belt.

Unlike Christians (Protestants and Catholics), Mormons are still somewhat devout to their faith and moral principles, which is why they more frequently oppose Trump.

Protestantism has lost its way in America long before Trump, but the Trump era has revealed them for they truly are. Mormons may be crazy, but they are more true to their faith and teachings.


Someone who supports the johnson amendment like you has no right to speak on behalf of the religious.
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Feb 10 2020 08:21pm
noticed it's not a red cap

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Feb 11 2020 01:08am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Feb 2020 18:43)
The factor with faithfulness of mormons certainly plays a role, but also the fact that Romney sits in one of the few states where even a Trump-critic could win reelection. Particularly since he's a mormon himself and revered by them.
All those others that you listed dont have the power/voter basis to afford open hostility against Trump without getting swept away by primary voters. Romney probably does. That's why he's the leader of the inner-party #resistance.


But like you said, the reason Utah is of the few states where even a Trump-critic could win reelection is because the state is filled with Mormons.

Quote (EndlessSky @ 10 Feb 2020 18:50)
Someone who supports the johnson amendment like you has no right to speak on behalf of the religious.


???

A no true scotsman purity test
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Feb 11 2020 03:58am
Quote (IceMage @ 10 Feb 2020 06:29)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4sxYqh-V3k

Worth watching.


i mean, he wasn't wrong about his prediction, but holy shit - do people even realise how crazy that shit is? that romney following his conscience (and all the evidence) and vote to convict would not only put his whole political career in danger, but even his very life and that of his family?
and just to confirm that, he was disinvited from CPAC, with the chairman matt schlapp publicly stating that he was afraid for romney's 'physical safety' during the conservative event.

could a party become more cult-like than the republicans under trump? like in a dystopian novel, it's quite literally 'support the emperor, or you're done for - no dissent allowed'.


cue the trumpapologists and 'reasonable' right wingers claiming "well, i'm not a big fan of it BUT... it's totally justified / not trump's fault / everyone would do this / not illegal / he deserves it..."
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Feb 11 2020 11:18am
Quote (fender @ 11 Feb 2020 10:58)
i mean, he wasn't wrong about his prediction, but holy shit - do people even realise how crazy that shit is? that romney following his conscience (and all the evidence) and vote to convict would not only put his whole political career in danger, but even his very life and that of his family?
and just to confirm that, he was disinvited from CPAC, with the chairman matt schlapp publicly stating that he was afraid for romney's 'physical safety' during the conservative event.

could a party become more cult-like than the republicans under trump? like in a dystopian novel, it's quite literally 'support the emperor, or you're done for - no dissent allowed'.


cue the trumpapologists and 'reasonable' right wingers claiming "well, i'm not a big fan of it BUT... it's totally justified / not trump's fault / everyone would do this / not illegal / he deserves it..."


Threats or even physical attacks against Romney and his family are unacceptable and uncalled for, no discussion about that.

-----

German insider talk, probably not interesting for non-German readers:



What do you say about about the threats and harassing against Kemmerich, his family and other FDP members? Here in Germany, we've had the same sitation over the last couple of day: "fall in line with the empress, or you're done for, no dissent allowed".

But in contrast to the situation in the U.S., the groups threatening the violence and committing the harassment here are partially state-funded and cheered on by the other leftist parties and significant chunks of the media. Quote Sarah Wagenknecht, former figurehead of the left-wing party, in a discussion round on state-run TV: "If there hadnt been such an incredible pressure from the streets, this 'test' (the democratic election of a prime minister in a federal state by democratically elected representatives) couldnt have been stopped and reversed so quickly."

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 11 2020 11:19am
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Feb 11 2020 02:42pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 11 Feb 2020 18:18)
Threats or even physical attacks against Romney and his family are unacceptable and uncalled for, no discussion about that.

-----

German insider talk, probably not interesting for non-German readers:



What do you say about about the threats and harassing against Kemmerich, his family and other FDP members? Here in Germany, we've had the same sitation over the last couple of day: "fall in line with the empress, or you're done for, no dissent allowed".

But in contrast to the situation in the U.S., the groups threatening the violence and committing the harassment here are partially state-funded and cheered on by the other leftist parties and significant chunks of the media. Quote Sarah Wagenknecht, former figurehead of the left-wing party, in a discussion round on state-run TV: "If there hadnt been such an incredible pressure from the streets, this 'test' (the democratic election of a prime minister in a federal state by democratically elected representatives) couldnt have been stopped and reversed so quickly."


fall in line with which 'empress'? you do know that christian lindner, the chairman of kemmerich's party, is a man, right? also, which "state-funded group" is threatening violence against him? serious question, i am genuinely unaware of that, but if it's true, this is wrong for sure.
btw, those 'democratically elected representatives' are people of your little far-right brownshirt party that every other party pledged not to form a coalition with, who deliberately tricked the system (by upholding their candidate but voting for kemmerich) to perform a political stunt. apparently you don't want that part to be known, hence the generic and innocent description of what actually happened, i wonder why that is...

the case is fundamentally different from romney in many other ways as well: it's not like prominent members of kemmerich's party are suggesting he should leave and join the far-right afd scumbags, whose votes he got. secondly, there is no coordinated effort by his party's leadership to smear him and destroy his political career. lastly, it is not like he is being physically threatened by supporters and organisations affiliated with his own party because he dared to vote in a way that they disliked. so suggesting the FDP is 'the same' cult-like organisation as the republicans, simply doesn't even begin to make sense. false equivalence meter reads 9/10.

that all said, threats of violence against him are wrong, unequivocally. serious ones should certainly be investigated and punished.
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Feb 12 2020 10:34pm
Quote (fender @ 11 Feb 2020 21:42)
fall in line with which 'empress'? you do know that christian lindner, the chairman of kemmerich's party, is a man, right? also, which "state-funded group" is threatening violence against him? serious question, i am genuinely unaware of that, but if it's true, this is wrong for sure.
btw, those 'democratically elected representatives' are people of your little far-right brownshirt party that every other party pledged not to form a coalition with, who deliberately tricked the system (by upholding their candidate but voting for kemmerich) to perform a political stunt. apparently you don't want that part to be known, hence the generic and innocent description of what actually happened, i wonder why that is...

the case is fundamentally different from romney in many other ways as well: it's not like prominent members of kemmerich's party are suggesting he should leave and join the far-right afd scumbags, whose votes he got. secondly, there is no coordinated effort by his party's leadership to smear him and destroy his political career. lastly, it is not like he is being physically threatened by supporters and organisations affiliated with his own party because he dared to vote in a way that they disliked. so suggesting the FDP is 'the same' cult-like organisation as the republicans, simply doesn't even begin to make sense. false equivalence meter reads 9/10.

that all said, threats of violence against him are wrong, unequivocally. serious ones should certainly be investigated and punished.


Quote (fender @ 13 Feb 2020 04:56)
do you have a reply to this:

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=82516617&f=119&p=554930652

particularly interested who you think the "empress" is that doesn't allow any dissent in covering her crimes, and which state funded organisations are threatening violence against kemmerich.


- antifa groups, which have publicly professed to attacks on FDP field offices all across the country, and which are receiving government funding from various "projects against the right". it's almost guaranteed that antifa or antifa-like leftist "activists" are behind the personal threats against Kemmerich and his family.
- merkel is the "empress" that called to undo a democratic election of a politician from a non-extremist party which wasnt even her own one. when AKK and others were calling for kemmerich's resignation and for the CDU Thüringen to distance themselves from his election, not a lot happened. as soon as Merkel called his election "unforgivable" and that it "must be undone asap" while on her overseas trip, he resigned less than an hour later, her own party chair AKK resigned a few days later, the chair of a different party (Lindner) fell completely in line, and to top it off, she fired the federal government's representative for Eastern Germany under the pretense that he violated the neutrality he's supposed to show in his office. needless to say, this guy who violated Merkel's political line and was fired over his lack of neutrality was replaced by a guy who called the AfD "toxic scum". so much about lack of neutrality. XD
- Merkel didnt do this to cover up her crimes, but she did it to preserve her eroding power. needless to say that the strategical dilemma into which she has led her party as chancellor and party chair with her disastrous decisions is the lone reason why all of this happened in the first place. also needless to say that this course is hurting her party a ton, and has now led to a situation where the party cant avoid further bleeding to either the Greens or the AfD. all for the sake of her remaining chancellor. Merkel has clearly put her own fate and power over the fate of her party.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Feb 12 2020 10:35pm
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Feb 12 2020 11:38pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 13 Feb 2020 05:34)
- antifa groups, which have publicly professed to attacks on FDP field offices all across the country, and which are receiving government funding from various "projects against the right". it's almost guaranteed that antifa or antifa-like leftist "activists" are behind the personal threats against Kemmerich and his family.
- merkel is the "empress" that called to undo a democratic election of a politician from a non-extremist party which wasnt even her own one. when AKK and others were calling for kemmerich's resignation and for the CDU Thüringen to distance themselves from his election, not a lot happened. as soon as Merkel called his election "unforgivable" and that it "must be undone asap" while on her overseas trip, he resigned less than an hour later, her own party chair AKK resigned a few days later, the chair of a different party (Lindner) fell completely in line, and to top it off, she fired the federal government's representative for Eastern Germany under the pretense that he violated the neutrality he's supposed to show in his office. needless to say, this guy who violated Merkel's political line and was fired over his lack of neutrality was replaced by a guy who called the AfD "toxic scum". so much about lack of neutrality. XD
- Merkel didnt do this to cover up her crimes, but she did it to preserve her eroding power. needless to say that the strategical dilemma into which she has led her party as chancellor and party chair with her disastrous decisions is the lone reason why all of this happened in the first place. also needless to say that this course is hurting her party a ton, and has now led to a situation where the party cant avoid further bleeding to either the Greens or the AfD. all for the sake of her remaining chancellor. Merkel has clearly put her own fate and power over the fate of her party.


so (very much as expected), your claims are based on speculation, exaggeration, misrepresentation, and false equivalence. you don't have any source or concrete claim about government funding and violence threats, you're just resorting to your old 'b-b-but antifa are the real fascists' talking point. and while writing anti-fascist slogans on the walls of FDP headquarters could certainly be charged with causing damage to property, it's very different from threatening physical harm to a politician. apparently you figured that your best bet here is to muddy the waters, and pretend that all of that happened, that it was the same people, a homogenous and 'government funded' GROUP that did this, but the complete lack of evidence for that, your ever moving goal posts, and the lack of more specific claims, just illustrates it's largely bs.

and again you're trying to frame the calculated political stunt by your far right party as merely a 'democratic election', and even more dishonestly, try to portray the way they achieved this (which was to not withdraw their own candidate, but then still unanimously vote for a different one) as an argument in their favour (you really have no shame, do you?).
why is that? it was a 'clever' (although not completely unexpected, as several politicians warned this might happen - which is part of the reason for the backlash since all other parties agreed not to collaborate with your brownshirt party) way to expose a weakness in the system, so why not proudly embrace it? oh right, because you're trying to misrepresent it, hoping to fool people who aren't familiar with the details.

yes, there was significant backlash over this election across ALL parties (those in power as well as those in opposition, those who stand to benefit from it, and those who won't), but that is hardly the same as trying to destroy a politician for voting his conscience. also, we have to remember how he ended up there in the first place - you exclusively trying to suggest the REaction to this little stunt is somehow undemocratic, while repeatedly trying to mislead about the cause of this situation, just showcases how incredibly dishonest you are.

my last point is your unhealthy obsession to draw equivalences between merkel and trump, or generally blame her for everything humanly possible (completely undermining the valid criticism of a rather significant list of things she actually should be blamed for): this isn't even remotely similar, let alone 'the same' as the romney vote, as i already explained in my previous post.
it's outright laughable to suggest this is a 'preserving of her eroding power' move. i mean, i'm sure you're well aware of her announcement not to run for chancellor again, that she retired from party leadership in 2018, and also announced her retirement from other political offices. and while naturally her word has a lot of weight, she merely echoed the similar concerns across party and even coalition lines throughout germany. you will probably disagree with the reasoning for those concerns, but even you won't pretend they aren't genuinely held by all other parties, or would you?

again her party has nothing to gain from this in thuringia, is not in a coalition with the fdp on a federal level - so there is no way this actually strengthens her position, you're clearly just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks...
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Feb 12 2020 11:46pm
Quote (fender @ 13 Feb 2020 00:38)
so (very much as expected), your claims are based on speculation, exaggeration, misrepresentation, and false equivalence. you don't have any source or concrete claim about government funding and violence threats, you're just resorting to your old 'b-b-but antifa are the real fascists' talking point. and while writing anti-fascist slogans on the walls of FDP headquarters could certainly be charged with causing damage to property, it's very different from threatening physical harm to a politician. apparently you figured that your best bet here is to muddy the waters, and pretend that all of that happened, that it was the same people, a homogenous and 'government funded' GROUP that did this, but the complete lack of evidence for that, your ever moving goal posts, and the lack of more specific claims, just illustrates it's largely bs.

and again you're trying to frame the calculated political stunt by your far right party as merely a 'democratic election', and even more dishonestly, try to portray the way they achieved this (which was to not withdraw their own candidate, but then still unanimously vote for a different one) as an argument in their favour (you really have no shame, do you?).
why is that? it was a 'clever' (although not completely unexpected, as several politicians warned this might happen - which is part of the reason for the backlash since all other parties agreed not to collaborate with your brownshirt party) way to expose a weakness in the system, so why not proudly embrace it? oh right, because you're trying to misrepresent it, hoping to fool people who aren't familiar with the details.

yes, there was significant backlash over this election across ALL parties (those in power as well as those in opposition, those who stand to benefit from it, and those who won't), but that is hardly the same as trying to destroy a politician for voting his conscience. also, we have to remember how he ended up there in the first place - you exclusively trying to suggest the REaction to this little stunt is somehow undemocratic, while repeatedly trying to mislead about the cause of this situation, just showcases how incredibly dishonest you are.

my last point is your unhealthy obsession to draw equivalences between merkel and trump, or generally blame her for everything humanly possible (completely undermining the valid criticism of a rather significant list of things she actually should be blamed for): this isn't even remotely similar, let alone 'the same' as the romney vote, as i already explained in my previous post.
it's outright laughable to suggest this is a 'preserving of her eroding power' move. i mean, i'm sure you're well aware of her announcement not to run for chancellor again, that she retired from party leadership in 2018, and also announced her retirement from other political offices. and while naturally her word has a lot of weight, she merely echoed the similar concerns across party and even coalition lines throughout germany. you will probably disagree with the reasoning for those concerns, but even you won't pretend they aren't genuinely held by all other parties, or would you?

again her party has nothing to gain from this in thuringia, is not in a coalition with the fdp on a federal level - so there is no way this actually strengthens her position, you're clearly just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks...

this guy literally posted a chapter of 'my struggle'

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Feb 13 2020 12:13am
Quote (excellence @ 13 Feb 2020 00:46)
this guy literally posted a chapter of 'my struggle'

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/392/685/a9c.png


why the fuck would you post a wall of text meme in a polsci subforum? if you can't read get out?
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