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Jun 30 2014 01:06am
Quote (wofire @ 25 Jun 2014 07:23)
...define orchestrated Charismatic displays? Our church doesn't do the whole, pastor walks around and causes people to fall out...or dragging someone up to front and healing them in front of everyone. When I say charismatic I mean Yes we do believe in healing, tongues, and prophecy. Each are gifts just as wisdom and boldness are and each should be celebrated just the same. I am also weary of churches that believe in mass falling outs and everyone speaking in tongues...I believe the Bible says not do do that because it will scare off non believers. That being said I don't think a church should hold back teaching/doctrine/prophecy just because there are nonbelievers around.


What is the purpose of your church speaking in tongues? Is there also an interpreter present when tongues are being spoken?

What is your definition of "prophecy"? How does your church prophesy?


If these questions were already asked, my apologies. I didn't read through the entire thread.

Quote (wofire @ 26 Jun 2014 04:45)
ya it's a huge debate in churches.  can you lose your salvation? It's almost commonly agreed that one you are a Christian you can't.  But we aren't in heaven yet, there isn't a prefect connection to God on this side of life.  acting morally is a desire to a Christian because they have seen how empty immorality is and how much better God is.  let's pretend a new Christian is like a peice of brass. It's dented, dirty and not able to reflect much of anything.  During our life God works with us to clean up the brass and ding out the dents so we can better reflect God.  When we sin it's like dinging the brass. sinning doesn't cause us to lose salvation but it does make us harder to reflect God.


Which is a false doctrine. Unrepentant sin can separate you from God. We also see people in the bible who willingly choose to leave God. Will God leave us? no. Will people leave God? yes. Whether through action or inaction.

This post was edited by Dune1 on Jun 30 2014 01:14am
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Jun 30 2014 02:04am
Quote (Dune1 @ Jun 30 2014 02:06am)
What is the purpose of your church speaking in tongues?  Is there also an interpreter present when tongues are being spoken?

What is your definition of "prophecy"?  How does your church prophesy?


If these questions were already asked, my apologies.  I didn't read through the entire thread.



Which is a false doctrine.  Unrepentant sin can separate you from God.  We also see people in the bible who willingly choose to leave God.  Will God leave us? no.  Will people leave God? yes.  Whether through action or inaction.


To answer your first question...
Tounges: we believe there are 2 types of tounges: 1 is a tongue to be interpreted and the other is a personal prayer language.
The one that is widely accepted is the belief of one that is interpreted. During corporate tounges, someone tells whoever is leading and then goes up in front of everyone and shares it. Then people who believe they have an interpretation come up and tell the leader, not the one who spoke it originally, and the leader attempts to get a general idea of the interpretation which he then shares.
The other I believe is more common but less spoken about and that is a prayer language.
1 Corinthians 14: 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God.
A prayer language is meant to edify oneself. They are praying by the Spirit, the prayer does not understand what he is saying. I am not the most experienced in this topic but that is the general idea.

Prophecy in its rawest form is listening to God and saying the words. That is who the prophets were...they heard God and spoke it. In our church we encourage people to prophes over each other. We ask God a question or ask God what is on his heart and we listen. If we hear a verse, or see a picture or anything like that, then we share it with the person we asked about. When learning how to do it we tell people not to tell people: who they are going to date, not a specific point of time, or what job should they do. Prophecy in the Church is meant to edify and uplift believers.

To answer the unrepentant sin comments...
That is a huge question: can someone jump out of God's hand....idk. I tried to present that argument as best as possible earlier in the thread. As far as unrepented sin goes...can you remember every bad thing you ever have done? in fact what about the good things? Since our righteous acts typically are for the wrong reasons, wouldn't they also be counted as wrong since our heart wasn't in the right place? So should we forgive every one of our actions? I think God's forgiveness wipes the slate clean and it continuously wipes it clean. There is a long post written on it if you feel like reading through it.
Here is a verse that I see that states that believers with unrepented sin still goes to heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

So does unrepented sin affect us? YES! We will feel the separation from God on this side of heaven. Our prayer life, our spiritual fruit and spiritual gifts will be effected.

This post was edited by wofire on Jun 30 2014 02:05am
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Jun 30 2014 02:05am
The statement that someone can lose their salvation or keep it; is a illogical fallacy and dependent solely on whether or not the person is a Christian or not. Furthermore, we as in in-perfect humans cannot judge other(s) on their salvation. It is illogical to do so, as in, we are not that person and cannot make that claim.

This post was edited by HighschoolTurd on Jun 30 2014 02:06am
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Jun 30 2014 05:08am
and bump! =)
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Jun 30 2014 06:04am
Quote (wofire @ 30 Jun 2014 00:40)
I Disagree. It is biblical that many will be condemned for committing faults.

Galations 2: 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[a] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

Matthew 18:8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.

Matthew 25
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 13
36 Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”37 He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

I am not trying to condemn anyone, but it is clear in the epistles and by Jesus's own words that there is a hell. There will be people going there.


you said some will be condemned.
what about the indigenous tribes around the world, people never even heard of Jesus.
and other religions?
Muslims
Hindu
chintoista
spiritism
Judaism
all will be condemned?
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Jun 30 2014 06:49am
Quote (El Shadday @ Jun 30 2014 07:04am)
you said some will be condemned.
what about the indigenous tribes around the world, people never even heard of Jesus.
and other religions?
Muslims
Hindu
chintoista
spiritism
Judaism
all will be condemned?


John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
This is why Christians are such obnoxious people always trying to convince people about it. 67% of the World are not Christians. I would say half of claimed Christians probably aren't Christians. So let's say 80% of the World aren't Christians. Then Yes I believe 8/10 people will be going to hell. Am I prideful about that, no. I find it very sad. Now this is when you say, That is not fair! How can God do that?!

God's qualities are seen throughout nature so men are without excuse to see God.
All men have a chance to live a perfect life, but no man does.
Since all men fall short of perfection, all men deserve hell.
Some men don't go because they have entrusted their lives into Jesus and the grace of God and not on their own work based merit.



This post was edited by wofire on Jun 30 2014 06:53am
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Jun 30 2014 08:11am
Quote (El Shadday @ Jun 30 2014 08:04am)
you said some will be condemned.
what about the indigenous tribes around the world, people never even heard of Jesus.
and other religions?
Muslims
Hindu
chintoista
spiritism
Judaism
all will be condemned?


...the truth is that most will be condemned .
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Jun 30 2014 09:17am
Quote (El Shadday @ Jun 30 2014 07:04am)
you said some will be condemned.
what about the indigenous tribes around the world, people never even heard of Jesus.
and other religions?
Muslims
Hindu
chintoista
spiritism
Judaism
all will be condemned?


Your idea of justice cannot take the place of God's.
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Jun 30 2014 09:52am
Quote (Dune1 @ Jun 30 2014 02:06am)
Which is a false doctrine.  Unrepentant sin can separate you from God.  We also see people in the bible who willingly choose to leave God.  Will God leave us? no.  Will people leave God? yes.  Whether through action or inaction.


Are you referencing Paul Tillich theology in the 'sin is separation' statement?

I was disappointed that my existentialism class didn't go too much into Christian and Jewish existentialism like Tillich and Buber.
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Jun 30 2014 01:36pm
Quote (Dune1 @ 30 Jun 2014 05:34)
As to not debate in the thread, I would like to give you scripture that does not coincide with your belief here - http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=71041432&f=119&p=477118762

Hebrews 6:4-6 states:

Quote
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.


I bolded the important parts. Scripture indicates that people "are not saved to begin with" but are in fact saved and choose to walk away from their salvation.


It just depends on the individuals interpretation of being a "Christian" and ofcourse, their relationship with God.

It is a mistaken belief for me, you, or anyone to claim that someone can lose their salvation, It's ultimately God's decision. Christians are promised eternal life John 3:16. But this is dependent whether or not they're a "Christian" and it's just a fallacy to make any assumptions or claims regarding this as we humans are not the ultimate judge.

This post was edited by HighschoolTurd on Jun 30 2014 01:50pm
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