I think the solution is pretty much to tax robotic/automated work and to use that money to give back to the people.

The main hurdle quite honestly is just convincing people to overcome the paradigm shift and understand might be the only option we have long term.

We already give people free money if they are old or physically or mentally deficient , now the government is just going to be giving everybody money because now a vast sector of the population doesn't have the means to contribute towards the economy and can't earn a wage/earnings.

i think we're approaching the tipping point. to me it all hinges on the % of the population on welfare, especially the % on full support welfare. I think people are surprised when they see the % of the population that receives some form of govt support, because it's a high number when u define certain aid like grants, food stamps, etc into the equation. But when u calculate the % of the population who is entirely dependent on the govt the numbers are still underwhelming. Once that becomes a much larger number the stigma will go away, stigmas are just the manifestation of minority taboo. The only reason we think of a non-working dependent as taboo today is because that support is by-and-large paid for by human labor. Once it's people being fed by robots rather than people being fed by people the resentment goes away. The issue is the short term, where for example 50% robot capital and 50% human capital is being used. Then there are two very large groups of people with resentment going both ways. Both those who feel superior because they have jobs and those who feel resentment because UBI is bound to pay less than an actual job.

It's nice to have you back. This place is better now.

ill try to keep my nose clean to avoid another

What's wrong with just shouting: socialism = communism = evil ? ^^

We are indeed at a tipping point, where full employment becomes a hindrance for progress. We'll see a future where governments will try to compete in full blown socialist societies focused on efficient technologies to reduce labor and costs.

It will be very interesting to see the transition. Because taxing robots in a certain country, would mean companies moving overseas.

This post was edited by Knaapie on May 1 2017 09:12am

This is such an important topic that doesn't get enough airtime. It comes down to two theories, assuming robots truly do take over millions of jobs, which I think they will.

1. Capitalism. If people can't adapt and learn greater skills that robots can't overtake, you're fucked and rightfully so. The writing is on the wall. We all hear the "fight for $15" cries while McDonalds and others develop robotic order takers and robotic cooks, etc. deeming the jobs worth even less than the minimum wage they pay now. So the capitalist theory is, learn a skill that can be automated or die, or just whine about a robot taking your job and live in self pity.

2. Universal Basic Income. This is the theory that as a country we need to understand that robots and automation are going to take over a good chunk of the workforce to the benefit of employers, particularly large corporations. Thus, we should increase the taxes on those corporations who are saving human capital cost in the form of hired employees. With that money we should institute a universal basic income so that everyone receives X amount of money so they can live without having to work because there simply aren't enough jobs, especially jobs for the simpleton.

This will become the "abortion" hot button issue in the next 20 years debated heavily in politics. Liberals will argue social safety nets being needed for those who didn't have the opportunity to learn the skills needed to compete for jobs. Conservatives will want to reward those who were able to pivot their career track into high demand fields that couldn't be automated and in a way, punish those who didn't adapt, and say it's not fair for the taxpaying working person to pay for those who weren't able to adapt.

This is a very big deal and people need to be aware of it. It's not just fast food workers, dishwashers, call centers, etc., but it's also computer coding, engineering, and very "in demand of the moment" jobs. I think in the next 20 years we will have computers who can create original computer code/java/c#/python/you name it that is sophisticated beyond what a human coder could do.

A few issues with an automation tax. 1, its difficult to calculate because in reality a robot doesnt "replace" a worker all that often, they generally come in a large investment wave that entirely changes the way a factory's production line runs. It's doable, but the calculations are complex, and we can't exactly trust corporations to self report accurately. 2, if the automation tax exceeds the cost of shipping they will automate elsewhere and save themselves the tax. We put plenty of plants in mexico because the cost to operate there is cheaper even with shipping included.

an automation tax will indeed be needed in the long run though. and here's the thing, eventually corporations will welcome it. because otherwise they will not have enough consumers to continue on production. at some point the tax actually stimulates their business by creating consumers.

This post was edited by thesnipa on May 1 2017 01:17pm

Meanwhile, people still are principally against basic income. Try to figure that out.

its pretty easy to figure out, my above post outlines it. While humans are paying for it it will drive up resentment, once robots are paying for it that wont happen as much. Although those with jobs, the few that they are, will be resented by the UBI masses who are worse off but stable.

I post very pro-capitalism things here, but I actually don't mind a UBI. I get bothered seeing so many huge pieces of shit on welfare, but I can't be totally pissed because I have a heavy heart for the children of idiot parents who fucked up their lives, and because of that I know they need the money to eat. Then of course the small percentage of good people who truly use welfare/unemployment to actually get back on their feet and work to get off welfare/unemployment.

I like UBI though because everyone gets it. I'd like it to be flat. $1000 for every adult regardless of income. Then, my taxes are actually going to myself and the middle class as well as the poor. I think that's a more fair system, stimulates economic growth (though in a dangerous way), etc. There are bonuses to doing a UBI.

What I don't want is people on a UBI/welfare/section eight to be able to get into expensive neighborhoods at reduced rates. There has to be incentive for people to want to work and not just sit on UBI. If you give people on UBI access to excellent schools, neighborhoods, healthcare, etc., then why would anyone ever work? There has to be a strong enough gap between UBI people and wage earners that makes people want to work.