Well, I like computers, so I was hoping for a heaven with computers. Also, I hate this kid Eric, he's a total douchebag but says he's a christian so if he's in heaven and like lives next door to me it would totally suck. I wouldn't mind some nice tennis courts either.

Your quote from Revelation made me remember something that might be worth mentioning here since we are kind of talking eschatology. I'm having trouble articulating it well, so please correct me if I mess it up. My understanding is that right now, there is a heaven, earth, and hell (three realms described in the Bible, the material existence, and the two "supernatural"). After the second coming of Christ, when Jesus casts evil out of the world and all of the elect (aka God's people, his chosen, etc) inhabit the earth for 1000 years we will have what is known the "New Earth",( which will be like the Garden of Eden again?), and we will all (past and present members of the elect) have our glorified and perfect bodies. After the 1000 years, we will go inhabit the "New Heaven" for eternity in fellowship with God. At some point in the timeline, this New Heaven is formed (not sure where exactly) and the elect who have since perished will be in heaven with God. It is my understanding that right now, prior to Christ's second coming, the elect who go on to heaven will not experience the "full effect" as it were of the New Heaven that is to come. They will not yet have their glorified bodies, and will be with God in some undefined sense.

So, the main point I am driving at is there are two different "stages" of heaven, what we have currently and what is to come after Christ returns. Also, the 1000 years on earth after Christ's coming would be part of the "afterlife", so should be included in the Christian explanation of "heaven" or "where do I go after I die".

Eschatology is, imo, one of the most difficult things to understand and discuss, but I believe I have given a somewhat accurate description.

This post was edited by mike14e on Jan 10 2013 03:21pm

...Revelation teaches that the Saints and the Martyrs are already in Heaven and since flesh and blood does not exist there the only conclusion I can come to is that they already have their glorified bodies . There are also many interpretations of the Millennial Kingdom and I have never invested any time in studying it since it really does not matter to me .

Matthew 17:1-6
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.”
5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!”
6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7But Jesus came and touched them. “Get up,” he said. “Don’t be afraid.” 8When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.

This draws the account in Revelation (that I gave) into question, but when you dig deeper into Revelation (which painstakingly is not in chronological order) the description of Christ's second coming involves what I described, and there is definitely emphasis on the "New Heavens and New Earth". Just because the saints and martyrs are with God, it does not mean they have their glorified bodies. This is very vague in the Biblical description, which is why I said the elect who have died prior to the second coming are with God, but in some undefined sense. And since later in Revelation it talks about those who came before getting their glorified bodies, I would assume that they do not currently have them.

This post was edited by mike14e on Jan 10 2013 03:36pm

...one of the things you will discover about me is that I never argue or debate over varying interpretations of Scripture . I will discuss them in real life with close friends and some family members but never on a public forum with non-believers present .

Fair enough, I assumed you had a more extensive study of the scripture and was more looking for you to correct me than to debate with you on the topic.

...not a matter that needs public correction

Light speed is not instant. If he travels instantly, he would have left the entrance instantly. Science fail.

Please stop trying to sound smart.

do you remember what you were doing from age 0-5?

memory is not correlated with existence.