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Jul 19 2012 07:29pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 19 2012 07:22pm)
Well... no I would not press it, because the existence of heaven would imply the existence of God, and since God is infallible I would assume he would have made the choice to put us in heaven if that were the most loving choice.


Obviously god is fallible if you were the one who could put everyone in heaven and god didn't. Heaven is perfection itself, so why not? So far, at least to me, it seems extremely, incredibly, and very likely that god is fallible and evil.
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Jul 19 2012 07:32pm
Quote (AEtheric @ Jul 19 2012 09:29pm)
Obviously god is fallible if you were the one who could put everyone in heaven and god didn't.  Heaven is perfection itself, so why not? So far, at least to me, it seems extremely, incredibly, and very likely that god is fallible and evil.


God Himself is the reason that heaven is perfection. Heaven is, by definition, existence in the presence and in union with God.

So I think if God were not omnibenevolent, then in turn heaven would not be perfect, and in that case also the button should not be pressed.
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Jul 19 2012 07:38pm
Quote (Voyaging @ Jul 19 2012 07:32pm)
God Himself is the reason that heaven is perfection. Heaven is, by definition, existence in the presence and in union with God.

So I think if God were not omnibenevolent, then in turn heaven would not be perfect, and in that case also the button should not be pressed.


And with our human mind we can see that the world is certainly not perfect or even a reflection of perfection. There is too much suffering and anguish for God to create such a thing and still be good. To me, it's painfully obvious [pun intended] that our world is not good, and therefore god is not good.

Whereas heaven is described as a state of perfection when compared to this world. So, of course, it would require that you push the button, even if god isn't perfect. God can be evil and still create a heaven for people to go to. For all we know there could be the good side of god in heaven and the evil on earth.

This post was edited by AEtheric on Jul 19 2012 07:42pm
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Jul 19 2012 08:21pm
His question is an emotional question, not a rational one. He is trying to relate the goodness of God with suffering and death. And he is forgetting the greatness in the power choice and free will. If free will isn't good than I don't know what is.
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Jul 19 2012 08:23pm
Quote (simpleforce @ Jul 19 2012 08:21pm)
His question is an emotional question, not a rational one. He is trying to relate the goodness of God with suffering and death. And he is forgetting the greatness in the power choice and free will. If free will isn't good than I don't know what is.



Free will is not good if it elicits evil. God could have created us with free will but no desire to commit evil. And god is not good if he cannot conform to the standard of good that is of his own creation.
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Jul 19 2012 08:38pm
Quote (AEtheric @ Jul 19 2012 08:23pm)
Free will is not good if it elicits evil. God could have created us with free will but no desire to commit evil. And god is not good if he cannot conform to the standard of good that is of his own creation.


you should remember, satan is the 2nd most powerful influence on earth
to lay all suffering at the feet of the creator, knowing that life has an end...

is unreasonable, at the least..

peace
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Jul 19 2012 08:53pm
To add,
Good is just 1 characteristic of God.
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Jul 19 2012 09:04pm
Quote (AEtheric @ Jul 19 2012 09:23pm)
Free will is not good if it elicits evil. God could have created us with free will but no desire to commit evil. And god is not good if he cannot conform to the standard of good that is of his own creation.


Debatable.
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Jul 19 2012 09:49pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Jul 19 2012 09:04pm)
Debatable.


As compared to heaven where there is free will without evil, no, free will is not good.
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Jul 19 2012 09:52pm
Quote (simpleforce @ Jul 19 2012 08:53pm)
To add,
Good is just 1 characteristic of God.


another is naive
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