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Jun 9 2013 05:38am
2 Kings 2:23-24 (New International Version)


Elisha Is Jeered

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.



I came across this and to put it simply.....seems pretty f*cked up to be in the bible.

I'm not one who follows the Bible. I'm hoping a Christian, Catholic or whoever could explain 2 Kings 2:23-24. What ever happened to Elisha?




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Jun 9 2013 05:40am
Although after searching Google for "2 Kings 2:23-24" I did find some funny art work. :lol:




This post was edited by said_aouita on Jun 9 2013 05:41am
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Jun 9 2013 05:49am
....congratulations on being the 100th poster to reference these verses and though I doubt you are sincere in your inquiry I'm gong to post some scholarly opinions on those Scriptures !



...from John Gills Exposition of the Bible here is his explanation of the first verse -

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible - 2 Kings 2:23
2 Kings 2:23

2 Kings 2:23
And he went up from thence unto Bethel
From Jericho, which lay in a plain, to Bethel, situated on an hill, and therefore is said to go up to it; hither he went, to acquaint the sons of the prophets with the assumption of Elijah, to condole their loss of him, and to comfort and encourage them, and confirm his own authority among them as a prophet in his stead:

and as he was going up by the way;
the ascent to the city:

there came forth little children out of the city;
the word for "children" is used of persons of thirty or forty years of age; and though these are said to be "little", they were so well grown as to be able to go forth out of the city of themselves, without any to guide them, or to take care of them; and were of an age capable not only of taking notice of Elijah's baldness, but knew him to be a prophet, and were able to distinguish between good and evil; and, from a malignant spirit in them, mocked at him as such, and at the assumption of Elijah; which they had knowledge of, and to whom, taught by their idolatrous parents, they had an aversion: some Jewish writers F24 say, they were called "Naarim", which we render "children", because shaken from the commandments, or had shaken off the yoke of the commands; and "little", because they were of little faith:

and mocked him, and said unto him, go up, thou bald head; go up, thou
bald head;
meaning not up the hill to Bethel, where his coming was not desirable to the greater part in it, being idolaters; and perhaps these children were sent out to intimidate him with their flouts and jeers from entering there; but having heard of Elijah going up to heaven, as was said, they jeeringly bid him go up to heaven after him, and then they should have a good riddance of them both; thus at the same time mocking at him for his baldness, and making a jest of the wondrous work of God, the assumption of Elijah; which, with behaving so irreverently to an hoary head, a prophet of the Lord, was very heinous and wicked, and therefore what befell them need not be wondered at.




...and the second verse you asked about from the same commentary -


2 Kings 2:24
And he turned back, and looked on them
With a stern countenance, thereby reproving them, and in order to intimidate them, and make them ashamed, and cause them to leave off, but to no purpose; they repeated their mockeries with great vehemence:

and cursed them in the name of the Lord;
moved thereunto, not from passion and a spirit of revenge, but by an impulse of the Spirit of God:

and there came forth two she bears out of the wood;
which are fiercest, and especially when bereaved of their whelps, as these might be; the wood seems to be near to Bethel, perhaps in the wilderness of Bethel, of which see ( Joshua 8:15 ) ( 18:12 ) , and Reland F25 thinks it is the same with the wood of Ephraim, ( 2 Samuel 18:6 ) , though the Jews, to increase the miracle, say F26 there was no wood at all, and, if there was, that there were no bears in it; but though those creatures are mostly in northern countries, yet there were of them in Judea, see ( 1 Samuel 17:34 )

and tare forty and two children of them;
it seems there were more than these; but such a number of them they tore to pieces and destroyed; which was very extraordinary, and was an awful punishment for their wickedness, which they knowingly and willingly committed, and of their parents in them, who had trained them up in such impiety, and put them upon it, and sent them out to do it.


...here is another commentary by Mathew Henry on 19 -25


Verses 19-25 Observe the miracle of healing the waters. Prophets should make every place to which they come better for them, endeavouring to sweeten bitter spirits, and to make barren souls fruitful, by the word of God, which is like the salt cast into the water by Elisha. It was an apt emblem of the effect produced by the grace of God on the sinful heart of man. Whole families, towns, and cities, sometimes have a new appearance through the preaching of the gospel; wickedness and evil have been changed into fruitfulness in the works of righteousness, which are, through Christ, to the praise and glory of God. Here is a curse on the youths of Bethel, enough to destroy them; it was not a curse causeless, for it was Elisha's character, as God's prophet, that they abused. They bade him "go up," reflecting on the taking up of Elijah into heaven. The prophet acted by Divine impulse. If the Holy Spirit had not directed Elisha's solemn curse, the providence of God would not have followed it with judgment. The Lord must be glorified as a righteous God who hates sin, and will reckon for it. Let young persons be afraid of speaking wicked words, for God notices what they say. Let them not mock at any for defects in mind or body; especially it is at their peril, if they scoff at any for well doing. Let parents that would have comfort in their children, train them up well, and do their utmost betimes to drive out the foolishness that is bound up in their hearts. And what will be the anguish of those parents, at the day of judgment, who witness the everlasting condemnation of their offspring, occasioned by their own bad example, carelessness, or wicked teaching!







...and one more from Wesley's Explanatory Notes



2:23 To Beth-el - To the other school of prophets, to inform them of Elijah's translation, and his succession to the same office; and to direct, and comfort, and stablish them. Children - Or, young men: as this Hebrew word often signifies. It is more than probable they were old enough to discern between good and evil. The city - Beth-el was the mother - city of idolatry, where the prophets planted themselves, that they might bear witness against it, and dissuade the people from it; though, it seems, they had but small success there. Mocked him - With great petulancy and vehemency, as the word signifies; deriding both his person and ministry, and that from a prophane contempt of the true religion, and a passionate love to that idolatry which they knew he opposed.Go up - Go up into heaven, whither thou pretendest Elijah is gone.Why didst not thou accompany thy friend and master to heaven?Bald - head - So they mock his natural infirmity, which is a great sin.The repetition shews their heartiness and earnestness, that it was no sudden slip of their tongue, but a scoff proceeding from a rooted impiety and hatred of God and his prophets. And very probably it was their usual practice, to jeer the prophets as they went along the streets, that they might expose them to contempt, and if possible drive them out of their town.Had the abuse done to Elisha been the first offence of the kind, they might not have been so severely punished. But mocking the messengers of the Lord, was one of the crying sins of Israel.
2:24 Cursed them - Nor was this punishment too great for the offence, if it be considered, that their mocking proceeded from a great malignity of mind against God; that they mocked not only a man, and an ancient man, whose very age commanded reverence; and a prophet; but even God himself, and that glorious work of God, the assumption of Elijah into heaven; that they might be guilty of many other heinous crimes, which God and the prophet knew; and were guilty of idolatry, which by God's law deserved death; that the idolatrous parents were punished in their children; and that, if any of these children were more innocent, God might have mercy upon their souls, and then this death was not a misery, but a real blessing to them, that they were taken away from that education which was most likely to expose them not only to temporal, but eternal destruction. In the name - Not from any revengeful passion, but by the motion of God's Spirit, and by God's command and commission. God did this, partly, for the terror and caution of all other idolaters and prophane persons who abounded in that place; partly, to vindicate the honour, and maintain the authority of his prophets; and particularly, of Elisha, now especially, in the beginning of his sacred ministry. Children - This Hebrew word signifies not only young children, but also those who are grown up to maturity, as Genesis 32:22 , 34:4, 37:30, Ruth 1:5.

This post was edited by WidowMaKer_MK on Jun 9 2013 06:10am
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Jun 9 2013 05:59am
Thats some first rate apologism and revisionism for an unmisinterpretable verse
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Jun 9 2013 11:03am
Quote (Goomshill @ Jun 9 2013 06:59am)
Thats some first rate apologism and revisionism for an unmisinterpretable verse


They were idolaters, what did you expect to happen to them?
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Jun 9 2013 11:43am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jun 9 2013 06:49am)
....congratulations on being the 100th poster to reference these verses and though I doubt you are sincere in your inquiry I'm gong to post some scholarly opinions on those Scriptures !

.


Thank you. Hopefully me replying shows you some sort of sincerity.


Obviously you don't know me so you shouldn't be so smug.


Care to link the other 99 thread? :rolleyes:
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Jun 9 2013 11:51am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jun 9 2013 06:49am)
2:24 Cursed them - Nor was this punishment too great for the offence, if it be considered, that their mocking proceeded from a great malignity of mind against God; that they mocked not only a man, and an ancient man, whose very age commanded reverence; and a prophet; but even God himself, and that glorious work of God, the assumption of Elijah into heaven; that they might be guilty of many other heinous crimes, which God and the prophet knew; and were guilty of idolatry, which by God's law deserved death; that the idolatrous parents were punished in their children; and that, if any of these children were more innocent, God might have mercy upon their souls, and then this death was not a misery, but a real blessing to them, that they were taken away from that education which was most likely to expose them not only to temporal, but eternal destruction. In the name - Not from any revengeful passion, but by the motion of God's Spirit, and by God's command and commission. God did this, partly, for the terror and caution of all other idolaters and prophane persons who abounded in that place; partly, to vindicate the honour, and maintain the authority of his prophets; and particularly, of Elisha, now especially, in the beginning of his sacred ministry.


This is still fucked up. In other words, if you mock you most likely are guilty of other worse crimes (by Gods law) even though those other crimes are unknown.
What it's saying is if you mock, obviously you are a horrible person who's done other heinous crimes. So if caught mocking, you are put to death?
Sounds like religious fanaticism to me.

This post was edited by said_aouita on Jun 9 2013 11:58am
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Jun 9 2013 11:54am
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Jun 9 2013 06:49am)
....congratulations on being the 100th poster to reference these verses and though I doubt you are sincere in your inquiry I'm gong to post some scholarly opinions on those Scriptures !



...from John Gills Exposition of the Bible here is his explanation of the first verse -

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible  - 2  Kings 2:23
2 Kings 2:23
 
2 Kings 2:23
And he went up from thence unto Bethel
From Jericho, which lay in a plain, to Bethel, situated on an hill, and therefore is said to go up to it; hither he went, to acquaint the sons of the prophets with the assumption of Elijah, to condole their loss of him, and to comfort and encourage them, and confirm his own authority among them as a prophet in his stead:

and as he was going up by the way;
the ascent to the city:

there came forth little children out of the city;
the word for "children" is used of persons of thirty or forty years of age; and though these are said to be "little", they were so well grown as to be able to go forth out of the city of themselves, without any to guide them, or to take care of them; and were of an age capable not only of taking notice of Elijah's baldness, but knew him to be a prophet, and were able to distinguish between good and evil; and, from a malignant spirit in them, mocked at him as such, and at the assumption of Elijah; which they had knowledge of, and to whom, taught by their idolatrous parents, they had an aversion: some Jewish writers F24 say, they were called "Naarim", which we render "children", because shaken from the commandments, or had shaken off the yoke of the commands; and "little", because they were of little faith:

and mocked him, and said unto him, go up, thou bald head; go up, thou
bald head;
meaning not up the hill to Bethel, where his coming was not desirable to the greater part in it, being idolaters; and perhaps these children were sent out to intimidate him with their flouts and jeers from entering there; but having heard of Elijah going up to heaven, as was said, they jeeringly bid him go up to heaven after him, and then they should have a good riddance of them both; thus at the same time mocking at him for his baldness, and making a jest of the wondrous work of God, the assumption of Elijah; which, with behaving so irreverently to an hoary head, a prophet of the Lord, was very heinous and wicked, and therefore what befell them need not be wondered at.




...and the second verse you asked about from the same commentary -


2 Kings 2:24
And he turned back, and looked on them
With a stern countenance, thereby reproving them, and in order to intimidate them, and make them ashamed, and cause them to leave off, but to no purpose; they repeated their mockeries with great vehemence:

and cursed them in the name of the Lord;
moved thereunto, not from passion and a spirit of revenge, but by an impulse of the Spirit of God:

and there came forth two she bears out of the wood;
which are fiercest, and especially when bereaved of their whelps, as these might be; the wood seems to be near to Bethel, perhaps in the wilderness of Bethel, of which see ( Joshua 8:15 ) ( 18:12 ) , and Reland F25 thinks it is the same with the wood of Ephraim, ( 2 Samuel 18:6 ) , though the Jews, to increase the miracle, say F26 there was no wood at all, and, if there was, that there were no bears in it; but though those creatures are mostly in northern countries, yet there were of them in Judea, see ( 1 Samuel 17:34 )

and tare forty and two children of them;
it seems there were more than these; but such a number of them they tore to pieces and destroyed; which was very extraordinary, and was an awful punishment for their wickedness, which they knowingly and willingly committed, and of their parents in them, who had trained them up in such impiety, and put them upon it, and sent them out to do it.


...here is another commentary by Mathew Henry on 19 -25


Verses 19-25 Observe the miracle of healing the waters. Prophets should make every place to which they come better for them, endeavouring to sweeten bitter spirits, and to make barren souls fruitful, by the word of God, which is like the salt cast into the water by Elisha. It was an apt emblem of the effect produced by the grace of God on the sinful heart of man. Whole families, towns, and cities, sometimes have a new appearance through the preaching of the gospel; wickedness and evil have been changed into fruitfulness in the works of righteousness, which are, through Christ, to the praise and glory of God. Here is a curse on the youths of Bethel, enough to destroy them; it was not a curse causeless, for it was Elisha's character, as God's prophet, that they abused. They bade him "go up," reflecting on the taking up of Elijah into heaven. The prophet acted by Divine impulse. If the Holy Spirit had not directed Elisha's solemn curse, the providence of God would not have followed it with judgment. The Lord must be glorified as a righteous God who hates sin, and will reckon for it. Let young persons be afraid of speaking wicked words, for God notices what they say. Let them not mock at any for defects in mind or body; especially it is at their peril, if they scoff at any for well doing. Let parents that would have comfort in their children, train them up well, and do their utmost betimes to drive out the foolishness that is bound up in their hearts. And what will be the anguish of those parents, at the day of judgment, who witness the everlasting condemnation of their offspring, occasioned by their own bad example, carelessness, or wicked teaching!







...and one more from Wesley's Explanatory Notes



2:23 To Beth-el - To the other school of prophets, to inform them of Elijah's translation, and his succession to the same office; and to direct, and comfort, and stablish them. Children - Or, young men: as this Hebrew word often signifies. It is more than probable they were old enough to discern between good and evil. The city - Beth-el was the mother - city of idolatry, where the prophets planted themselves, that they might bear witness against it, and dissuade the people from it; though, it seems, they had but small success there. Mocked him - With great petulancy and vehemency, as the word signifies; deriding both his person and ministry, and that from a prophane contempt of the true religion, and a passionate love to that idolatry which they knew he opposed.Go up - Go up into heaven, whither thou pretendest Elijah is gone.Why didst not thou accompany thy friend and master to heaven?Bald - head - So they mock his natural infirmity, which is a great sin.The repetition shews their heartiness and earnestness, that it was no sudden slip of their tongue, but a scoff proceeding from a rooted impiety and hatred of God and his prophets. And very probably it was their usual practice, to jeer the prophets as they went along the streets, that they might expose them to contempt, and if possible drive them out of their town.Had the abuse done to Elisha been the first offence of the kind, they might not have been so severely punished. But mocking the messengers of the Lord, was one of the crying sins of Israel.
2:24 Cursed them - Nor was this punishment too great for the offence, if it be considered, that their mocking proceeded from a great malignity of mind against God; that they mocked not only a man, and an ancient man, whose very age commanded reverence; and a prophet; but even God himself, and that glorious work of God, the assumption of Elijah into heaven; that they might be guilty of many other heinous crimes, which God and the prophet knew; and were guilty of idolatry, which by God's law deserved death; that the idolatrous parents were punished in their children; and that, if any of these children were more innocent, God might have mercy upon their souls, and then this death was not a misery, but a real blessing to them, that they were taken away from that education which was most likely to expose them not only to temporal, but eternal destruction. In the name - Not from any revengeful passion, but by the motion of God's Spirit, and by God's command and commission. God did this, partly, for the terror and caution of all other idolaters and prophane persons who abounded in that place; partly, to vindicate the honour, and maintain the authority of his prophets; and particularly, of Elisha, now especially, in the beginning of his sacred ministry. Children - This Hebrew word signifies not only young children, but also those who are grown up to maturity, as Genesis 32:22 , 34:4, 37:30, Ruth 1:5.


this is why i have a strong dislike of religious nutjobs
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Jun 9 2013 11:54am
Quote (said_aouita @ Jun 9 2013 12:51pm)
This is still fucked up.  In other words, mocking by Gods law deserves death.


Yes, mocking a prophet of the Lord while being an idolater can be punished with death. Clearly that's for the Lord to decide though, given that Elisha merely called down the Lord's punishment, he didn't grab an axe and do it himself.

It certainly made its point, no?
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Jun 9 2013 11:56am
Quote (bogie160 @ Jun 9 2013 12:54pm)


It certainly made its point, no?



Made it's point that the Bible was written in a time very different than today.
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